Home Education Curriculum That Swings Both Ways Is More Fun

15 08 2009

I just came across a Catholic mom’s free home education curriculum philosophy (with video) based on the same core resources we’ve loved as secular unschoolers!

Lazy Mom’s Homeschool Curricula

Consider this a fun little sidetrip along the epic journey of self-discovery that is our Christian versus secular curriculum evaluation project at Lynn’s.

For a contrasting example, conservative Christian blogger mom Spunky once defined her overall homeschooling curriculum goal with this:

A well-educated child is one who knows and loves the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength; and loves their neighbor as themselves. That’s not proven by a standardized test score, but demonstrated daily in a life lived in obedience and service to Him.

This works for conservative Christians — school football players in the South for example, seem very well-educated if Christianity is the standard and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes is the measure. But my thoughtful, well-educated, creative-class children would be dismissed as idiot failure barbarians under that definition (excepting the universal humanist nod to the neighbors, who they always count as equal to themselves, better than most Christians I meet.)

I remember puzzling over a related post at her place, in which one teen son was being taught how contemplative bible study holds every answer, even to modern secular education issues such as video games and television. (Need I add there’s no television in that home’s education?)

So meaningful overlap between Spunky and Snook curriculum isn’t realistic. This particular Christian curriculum approach by its own intent, excludes the secular life of the mind almost as if it sees the purpose of education as inoculation against any other way of thinking and learning but obedience and submission to infallible Authority as defined by one’s elders.

The antithesis of what I consider education.

OTOH Lazy Catholic Mom’s curriculum works both for her AND for me. 😀

The Animaniacs and especially The Simpsons are huge around here, more Young Son than FavD but learning is naturally integrated when we’re at home together — we all learn from each other’s pursuits. It rubs off.

FavD is acting as Chief Justice of SCOTUS in her honors national government class moot court, presiding over five cases drawn from reality but set in The Simpsons’ cartoon town of Springfield. . .

She’s finding that she knows enough to be pretty active in the questioning, connecting cases and principles that weren’t in the materials and no one else brought up.

That’s why my old posts are not about obedience and submission to authority as education. As I like to quote, Mortimer Adler’s definition of education was “the freeing discipline of wonder.” Religious education seems like an oxymoron then, unless we change our definition of religion to match, make it freeing rather than oppressive, wondrous rather than warlike, open to questions and new discovery and change. That was the thought when I wrote this:

Maybe human spirituality is evolving [for the next cultural era] as we discover and accept truths not through patriarchal personification and studying “authoritative” writings spelled out for our dutiful performance on demand, but through an “unschooled” direct and democratic if you will, personal connection [to our own inner selves,] to each other, and to the universe as a system?

For some snooking around on tv, cartoons and musical theatre as power of story for home education, see

Nothing is Sexier Than a Baritone — Fav D unschools with Howard Keel in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers and other musical movies

Ignorance Makes the N-word Even Scarier — Ragtime as history, culture and loving thy neighbor too

School theatre and Citizen Censorship

Finally, I remembered conservative Christian dad Scott Somerville who with his family, markets a home education curriculum called Tapestry of Grace. He and I nevertheless had great overlap in our (imo well-educated) ideas about education as worldly power of story, not just bible study. Here’s an example on one such conversation I wish the home education community could move back toward, as neighbors loving each other and the whole world, and loving learning with all our kids not as competitors for the favor of Authority but as the only power of story that counts as real education:

Nudes and Prudes

My point here is what’s in people’s heads, harmful ideas and beliefs that policy cannot fix. Stuff that hurts children when parents and teachers and role models get it all twisted. You have to THINK, not just take the written rules and beat each other over the heads with them until the stronger, louder, ruder, more heavily armored warriors are left standing.

. . . to me the obscenity was hers and it was spiritual, not really flesh-based at all. Her prudish and self-righteous hysteria, about skin and eyeballs and biological differences, completely missed the deeper magic (like Aslan versus the White Witch) — modesty, self-control, courage, family, compassion, civility, conflict resolution.

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63 responses

15 08 2009
boremetotears

I love the Simpsons. They’re sacrelicious! 🙂

Okay, now that I’ve had my morning fix of blog reading, I can leave town… for a Girl Scout camping trip! 😛

15 08 2009
Kristina

I am officially done with school for the year. 🙂

15 08 2009
JJ

LOL – sorry children, no Simpsons until school starts again!

15 08 2009
Crimson Wife

Wouldn’t you want your children’s education to reflect whatever values your family holds to be important (religious or secular)? If, for example, you value the idea that all people are equal, then you would not want to use racist materials- correct?

I happen to have a similar phrase to the one quoted from Spunky in my own personal educational philosophy: “Our primary goal in homeschooling is to teach our children to love God and to serve Him in everything they do.”

I don’t see an inherent contradiction between that statement and the following one later on: “We wish to encourage creativity, thinking ‘outside the box’, and approaching problem-solving in innovative ways.”

Just think of the infinite creativity that can be found within the constrains of the English language. There are only 26 letters and certain rules of grammar and syntax. While I need to follow those if I want to be able to communicate with anyone else, I have the complete freedom to express myself as creatively as I can.

The way I see it, God has placed certain constraints on human behavior (such as the 10 Commandments). But so long as I stay within God’s rules, I am free to be as creative as I like.

15 08 2009
JJ

I don’t get that, CW. Thinking for oneself isn’t compatible with obedience to Authority in my value system.

15 08 2009
Mrs. C

SO many links… so little time! Though one thing I’m finding in the Sonlight debate on Nance’s blog is really almost a discussion of how-to overlap between “Spunky and Snook” curriculum, because it claims to be a Christian curriculum provider that also markets books friendly to the idea of evolution.

In theory, I don’t see a problem with a “we think this, but other people think (whatever) because (reason).” But I myself couldn’t see giving the “other side” in a debate equal time with my children. I don’t *imagine* Sonlight is claiming to do that. That’s just silly… NOBODY does that. Or if they do, I’m not aware of it. :]

15 08 2009
JJ

Hi Mrs. C — glad you slogged through all that, but you may have missed the conflict between learning who and what to believe, versus learning different ways to think for yourself so you can arrive at your OWN “side.”

16 08 2009
Mrs. C

“…you may have missed the conflict between learning who and what to believe, versus learning different ways to think for yourself so you can arrive at your OWN ‘side.'”

No, not at all, JJ. I am merely stating that that lens through which we discern “Truth” is different depending upon the philosophy of the viewer, and we teach our children to hold these lenses up when they’re evaluating a claim or thought. I would teach my children to uphold a new teaching or idea to what we believe God would have to say about it based on the Bible. You might teach yours that concrete evidence and/or empirical scientific proof would determine Truth.

We both want our children to determine what Truth would be. And so, the books we present (or don’t present) about points of view with which we don’t agree are probably going to be presented in a way that would reinforce what we already believed. I mean, I doubt you had your kids memorize Scripture verses each week, memorize the books of the Bible and say a morning prayer so that they could discern for themselves whether they really believed this stuff. You can’t really introduce an alternate point of view completely objectively, or even in the spirit in which the holder of the opposing viewpoint would wish, is what I’m saying. No matter how hard you may try.

The quip about Spunky vs. Snook is really an interesting concept though because there are so many LAYERS to it when you think on it.

If it is true that God determines who is saved and who is not (though, yeah, He gives us free will, etc…. ok another debate), then WHY would Christians feel like failures if their children don’t turn out as good and faithful followers? Why is it almost a feather in one’s cap to have x number of children all out there, and serving the Lord? Oh, it must mean you did everything right, goody for you. Guess you don’t need Jesus because you’re all that.

It’s rather a personal issue for me, and I know with my struggles with raising children who are extremely literal or have difficulty getting along with others or whatever… I mean, neurological troubles are viewed as very SINFUL no matter which church you go to. Really, I have a crisis of faith here. I have just this last Sunday found our Children’s pastor dragging my son around during the service when I peeked downstairs. Sure, he was “bad” again. And you know? Not that my kids are never “bad,” or sinful like anyone else’s. Can we accept that they have more difficulty with certain things and alter some stuff so they can function better? I think the answer might just be “no,” because once the old Sinner’s Prayer is spoken aloud, we’re all better and quit acting disabled. And he refuses to make any sort of plan with me because it was just that one time that Elf had a problem. Maybe I am crazy for thinking this is a problem!! No one else seems to think it’s a problem to bodily move a nine-year-old about.

I really don’t know what I should do on that. I don’t want to leave the church as that is the ONLY time my kids see other children, and co-op I don’t think would work too well. My choices? I guess I could go over his head and talk with the senior pastor and be a troublemaker, or just keep the children with me in service. Then they can at least see the kids in the hallway as everyone else their age gets to go downstairs. That’s socialization, right?? It would just last for 30 seconds with Mom standing by instead of an hour and a half without her. I keep thinking of the senior pastor option, but since the CP’s wife is deathly ill (cancer), I will be the very, very bad guy. The very, very bad guy… with the unruly children and no heart for the fact that she is so sick.

I hate it. Really, I’ve gotten to the point where I rathermuch doubt sometimes that I believe at all. I only teach my kids this stuff (in the King James, thanks) so they have some sort of chance not to go to Hell. If I am this confused, it is probably too late for me and perhaps I wasn’t predestined or something. So! I must be free of that lens. Onto atheism!

But does my experience mean the Bible is not true and I need to become a secular humanist? That behavior-response loop is one of those things that doesn’t appeal to me. The local secular public school has in its high school handbook a detailed description of how kids are to be hit (criteria for, staff present, etc.) with a wooden paddle. In elementary schools, I guess the kids are smaller and easier to toss into the fancy “recovery room” closet.

But, sure! They’ll talk of “empowering excellence” in public schools and helping children learn to become productive citizens. They speak just as well of accepting the disabled as your nearest church. And moreso, they use our state money to a degree that no church in America could boast. They have a rather captive audience in people like Woodjie. I don’t think I have anywhere else to send him when he gets older if I don’t magically get the support from my husband and an extra caregiver/money/ something. I can’t imagine how I could teach him and his neurotypical sister AND the two older brothers AND handle the two high schoolers’ schedules. I mean, for a day or a week, sure. Years? I cannot.

Perhaps back to the Spunky vs. Snook methodologies (my! I am rambling), I should have to say my “lens,” if you will, would be the best interest of the child. I am starting to think that REALLY, I need to do things like go to the grocery store with the children and have them figure out what a “fruit bar” is or what a “deli” is and that sort of thing. I swear to you that I feed them, but they don’t catch things like that. I told Emperor tonight that I really do have a lot on my plate, you know, and he wanted to know where the plate was.

16 08 2009
Nance Confer

The debate is going on at Lynn’s blog — http://boremetotears.com/2009/08/05/how-to-find-secular-homeschooling-resources/

I just stop in to spout off once in a while. 🙂

Nance

16 08 2009
JJ

If a parent is taught this way herself:
“I would teach my children to uphold a new teaching or idea to what we believe God would have to say about it based on the Bible” —

Then it makes perfect sense to see all education as necessarily working in this same rules-flow-from-Authority sort of way, and then that it will be how you’ll tend to teach your own. What else could there be, right? So in this philosophy, teaching children is all about getting them to study and accept a set of unbreakable rules from a mysterious Omnipotent Authority, or else be condemned both on earth and for eternity.

It also makes sense that such a parent will view all education philosophy as built from this same single structural scaffolding, because that parent believes that God made everybody and wrote all the rules for what “is” and how it works. So to that parent, all education must necessarily be a process of teaching children to obey and conform to the rules, to believe whatever authority is put before them, to learn willing followership at all costs — the only difference between religious and secular education then, would be which rival Authority/Arbiter of All Things is set up at the top, issuing the rules and rewards and judgments and punishments.

So it makes sense to that bible-based parent, to see my kind of education as the same as hers only with “Science” as the Authority instead of “God.”

So I understand it but don’t agree with it at all. And it illustrates exactly why this kind of education (one Authority with all answers and omnipotent power over human events) is really indoctrination instead, and is so damaging to the child’s lifelong ability to think independently, and why it is therefore in *my* education philosophy, unethical — because it literally makes it impossible for her to ever understand me as well as I can understand her.

16 08 2009
Nance Confer

That’s a lot of thinking in one post, Mrs. C. A lot of good thinking. Questioning, doubting, trying out possible next steps.

And I agree with you that our personal take on the world is going to be the lens we offer our children. Whether they have the opportunity to reject it or modify it or not seems to me to be a big difference between your kind of Christian and my kind of athesist as opposed to ultra-authoritarian types.

Nance

16 08 2009
JJ

Mrs C, what I find fascinating is that I see you as very innovative and self-reliant and practical and questioning, even skeptical of Authority. You’re doing far more than accepting whatever the Church and School authorities say is the rule or god’s will.

This isn’t true of too many parents who would cleave strictly to the above definition of “education” as loving god and the bible, period.

So maybe you in fact are teaching your children in a flexible, creative, curiosity mode and forging independently chosen paths with them, that you just don’t quite yet consciously recognize as real education rather than religious duty. 🙂

16 08 2009
JJ

Thinking more about the last part of Mrs C’s comment, that she has children who can be so literal, that metaphor and cultural idiom aren’t easy for them to learn to comprehend and apply in thinking and communicating. So it seems to me that would make bible study the LAST thing that would be good for them at this stage, until/unless they can develop that way of thinking and understanding.

Both books of the bible are all about metaphor and cultural idiom, even leaving aside all sorts of translation errors. Imagine the horrors if Amelia Bedelia literalists acted out in 2009 America, verses memorized and quoted for their metaphorical but not literal lessons. (Luke used one in Lynn’s big discussion just the other day btw, about Jesus taking up a braided whip and beating people out of the marketplace or some such — when I asked him how he meant it, he seemed unable to disavow the literal for the metaphorical and even presenting himself as such a gentle, polite fellow, he left the clear impression that he might believe both were god’s will in the actual present. It was pretty unsettling. And yet he is a marketing expert, very sensitive to nuance and feelings, iow not autistic. So imagine if he WERE and literally had been taught that was what Jesus would do in the marketplace . . .)

16 08 2009
Nance Confer

And like the healthcare debate, there are not only two choices — authoritarian unhelpful church folk or authoritarian unhelpful school folk — bullies all.

There are the rest of us, too. 🙂 We manage without having to bully anyone.

Nance

16 08 2009
JJ

The Animaniacs and the Simpsons specifically, are completely subversive to the idea of Obeying Authority! — which makes them incompatible with the strict bible-based tutelage but invaluable in think-for-yourself education. (Calvin and Hobbes too. Just ask FavD or sam or COD!)

17 08 2009
Mrs. C

JJ, Amelia Bedelia is only funny in books. It is NOT FUNNY when your child asks the nice black cashier at Hy-Vee if her boss knows she is away from the farm.

*cringe*

Yeah, and right after that? I got allll into with the kids about how yes, all this stuff happened and now it’s over, ok? That’s why some people like to call black folks “African-Americans”… because they’re from Africa, but they’re Americans now, ok?

Ok.

30 seconds later, Elf approaches a fellow stocking fruit. “You’re from Africa!” he says.

“YES! I am from Kenya! How did you know??”

Um, it’s time to leave the store. Now.

17 08 2009
lori

//I mean, neurological troubles are viewed as very SINFUL no matter which church you go to. //

Not at a UU church.

//Can we accept that they have more difficulty with certain things and alter some stuff so they can function better?//

Of course they can! But why don’t they? What do they give up by acknowledging this child’s needs? The questions you’re asking yourself are spot on. Where is their compassion for your child? If this is your denomination’s beliefs being enacted upon children, especially those with special needs, then is this denomination right for you? If its Truth is in direct conflict with your Truth (of what you know to be True of your child), then what do you do?

[Mrs C], I’m honestly upset to hear how your son is being treated at your church. I can see why it’s causing you such grief….

17 08 2009
JJ

You guys are all thinking pretty well and loving your neighbors too, in my book. 🙂

Mrs. C, in reading this whole discussion again, I noticed this anew because the exact same bodily bullying via institutional education happened to MY nine-year-old! His sort of innocent cluelessness in social situations doesn’t come from being on the spectrum, and it wasn’t at church but in a private dance academy I had carefully chosen — and I was sitting most vigilantly right outside. It was my kind of church, if you will. 🙂

Nance will remember this hideous, faith-shaking story. If I can find it written up (looking now) I’ll post it but suffice to say I was, well, insane comes close! It challenged my faith in myself as a good mom and worse, in the power of real education I believe in deeply.

So like Mrs C now, I had to work through and make sense of it the best I could, very much on my own, to figure out how I personally could best handle it both short- and long-term. I never felt the same about that academy or anyone there, btw. We didn’t break with it for a few years after that, but it pulled back a sort of gauzy business marketing curtain I had tried to trust, and left me looking at some grubby human realities (and a betrayal of everyone’s trust) that to me was a microcosm of the Catholic priest molestation scandal.

Anyway, so I’m thinking the treatment of socially innocent nine-year-olds like Elf and Young Son — the actual “how” of how they are loved in different settings with different belief systems and claims and rules and authority — makes a practical sort of case study (cat-scratching pole?) we can benefit from examining.

Authoritarian abuse whether in a private or public academy or at any church, all is enabled by the same thinking error on the part of the parent, of teaching our children to submit to it and perhaps submitting to it ourselves because the bible or the boss or the policeman (or the voice of your own elders in your head on endless loop) told me to.

You might be at a good teachable moment to see the movie “Doubt” on dvd, Mrs. C . . .

17 08 2009
JJ

Didn’t find what I was looking for yet but I did find this draft (unedited) from August three years ago:

Making death threats to perceived enemies certainly isn’t limited to one part of the political spectrum nor limited to non-Christians (Michael Schiavo suffered death threats from holier-than-thou folk and so did various judges in that case; don’t get me started on actual slaying by fundamentalists)

So what IS the religious-political point about death threats? Anything that can help us as a practical matter, as in what do we do different and better today, here on earth?

I think [conservative Christians and secular humanists] will never agree prayer is the answer to good government – so maybe we should be looking for a sort of “theory of everything” that works for all diverse peoples, a theory that explains and solves mysteries of both science and philosophy, cooperation and independence, liberty and strength, etc. We should look to something we can all understand and wholeheartedly work together to support, within our own beliefs and frames of reference. I suspect this is what religion once was, in simpler times.

But in any time and place, something that is truly “good” as science, religion or just good politics and government, won’t divide us and part-ition us from each other, and set us to infighting, right?

. . .I’ve been connecting the Punishment Mindset (for present lack of something better to dub it) to most of what’s wrong in families, schooling, society and government. (Churches too, I shudder to think how big an influence punishment still can be in places of peace and contemplation – corporal and otherwise)

So I might tend to take our discussion toward the proposition that what’s truly evil is punishment and force, not Man, Woman and toddlers, that the Punishment Mindset is a virus that infects our relationships personal and political, and that it is demonstrable both through secular and theological methods that through punishment’s willful exercise all shall perish from the earth, along with all blessings and goodness, including the truth, beauty, goodness, love, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Christians could think of it as the Old Testament Mindset and work to emphasize the “blessings” of the new instead, and the loving personal relationship with Jesus that Ruth describes. The science and reason folks could look at the data – The Punishment Mindset breeds fear, secrecy, resentment and generations of continued infliction of punishment rather than progress. Punishment never created virtue in toddlers and it won’t create virtue in politicians. . .

17 08 2009
Mrs. C

Thanks, JJ!

Now, if we don’t have punishment, how should we ideally direct a child who lacks verbal understanding? Certainly I’m ok with a goodly amount of thinking outside the box and that sort of thing on the part of a child. Just as long as it isn’t my box. :]

OK, really seriously, though… how to get a child like my son to use the toilet when he’s a bit bigger when he still hasn’t said “Mamma” or responded to “come here?” How to get him to obey certain social constructs? I should like to keep him home with me as he ages, and help him be a person who learns to cooperate.

Nothing I have done so far really seems to work. It appears as though, with a lack of understanding, that the will cannot be reasoned with at all. I really feel I need a LOT of help on this. Literally, I have no IRL friends and maybe there is a reason for that if I’m so picky about stuff but don’t have my ship together myself. No clue where to start on that. There is, simply, no one to trust who CAN help.

And more, how to reason with others who *may* actually mean well that this dragging kids about is counter-productive? I have no alternative that isn’t time-consuming and inconvenient. And am I a hypocrite since I just bodily pick up my toddler and wash his hands to expect that? And what is going to happen to my toddler as he ages if he cannot learn that we must wash our hands after we eat, how to sit properly at the dentist, how to wait to be served at the table, etc.?

Annnyway, practical curriculum should be something that both “sides” of a political debate on education should be able to agree on if it helps kids able to go to the store or sit through a movie without freaking out.

17 08 2009
JJ

What does Dr. Grandin say about such things? I’ve heard her speak about her own childhood and education several times at some length but I’ve not read her books. I remember she talked about structure and literal physical confinement in the comforting way, because the pressure made her feel safe and calmer like swaddling to a baby, and a very literal animal-translated type visceral response to sensory things — sounds, glare, sudden motions, harsh voices, surely being threatened or hit? I didn’t get the impression she was physically punished or deprived but she did seem to have been expected to do all those personal things for herself at a high level. It seemed the main focus was helping her learn to help herself manage, so she COULD then learn to self-learn general academics and adult social skills. Looks like it worked out pretty well!

We may say something that will give you a thought to research and pursue but please keep reminding yourself we’re woefully ignorant to advise on what’s best — me too, with my background in education — except for one thing: at least we know we don’t know and we’ll admit it! And no judging or shaming. That’s more than you’ll get from equally ignorant but less honest and loving folks no matter where you look . . . 🙂

17 08 2009
Mrs. C

JJ, Temple Grandin *seems* (and I’m no doctor) from her own descriptions of herself to be either at the lower end of high-functioning or the higher end of low- but was able through therapy and diligent training to be functional and even develop expertise that is marketable. She will always be autistic, and I appreciate her comments that highly social people didn’t invent stuff because they were too busy yapping LOL.

I would liken her to doing for autism what a first-wave feminist would do for women’s rights. She doesn’t seem to understand that sometimes things need to be altered a bit for those people who have trouble fitting in, etc. She had to work hard to be where she is and I can appreciate that. But others on the spectrum (if you will) are more adversely affected in some ways.

Of course, that’s the trick. She says that she was allowed so-and-so much time to stim or play without interference, but other times she was expected to be social. And that’s an *idea* I’m trying to implement, but I want to have enough grace for my son to encourage his friendliness. To me, his happy yell and arm-flapping IS social if we have “joint attention.” But I want to someday get to the point where it would be ok for me to die. Morbid, huh? Well, I would like the big freakout to be about “I miss my mom” (ohhh, for about two months, you can be sad) rather than everyone trying to figure out what to do with the grown children who can’t function alone. :[

18 08 2009
JJ

Must be why they call it a spectrum. {{hug}}

18 08 2009
JJ

After finding and posting that three-year-old draft suggesting an evil Punishment Mindset poisoning our public sphere, what do I see this morning?

The Red Bottoms of Red Staters: Corporal Punishment Contributes to Right-wing Paranoia:

Nearly all of the states in which it is legal for school authorities to inflict corporal punishment on children are in the South. . . The article describes the physical punishment of a 6-year old autistic boy, who was spanked with an inch-thick wooden paddle wielded by a 300-pound assistant princip[al]. “It just devastated him,” the boy’s grandmother recalled.

OK, so folks in red states like to “discipline” children by raising welts on their buttocks, and find the derrières of the disabled a particularly tempting target.

What does that tell us about politics other than confirming what we already know about the sadism of conservatives, their contempt for the vulnerable, and their absence of empathy?

Well, as it turns out, not only does a right wing ideology justify and facilitate spanking, but also spanking helps to create future right wing ideologues.

. . .Controlling for the known effects of education and income, [researchers] found that a history of this sort of childrearing predicted conservative political attitudes in adulthood. If we attend to the affective register of Republican “street” politics (however fueled by K Street), it is obviously driven by fury, vengeance, and a sense that a malevolent authority whose responsibility is to care for them is really out to humiliate, hurt and destroy those who are dependent on its ministrations.

No wonder GOP propagandists, like Frank Luntz, have gotten such a high political yield out of conjuring up the evil parental bogey of “Big Government.”

. . . Michael Savage:
“Things were tough every day of our lives. And we made the best of it. Frankly, that’s why I’m driven the way I am. I was raised on neglect, anger, and hate. I was raised the old-fashioned way.”

In another interview, following his usual rant against “turd-world immigration,” “left-wing pinko vermin in high places,” and the uppity women of the “she-ocracy,” he warns his readers, “Only a more savage nation can survive — not a more compassionate nation.”

It seems the only way he could survive, when in the late 1980s he shifted his identity from an ambivalent North Beach bohemian to a reborn conservative, was to change his last name from Weiner (pronounced whiner) to Savage. If you accept power as a zero-sum game — which is the Republican world-view, and one that parental violence makes quite persuasive — it’s better to be a perpetrator than a victim.

One of the frothing town hall brown shirts, Scott Oskay, tweeted to his comrades last week that they should bring their guns, and that if anyone from ACORN or SEIU attended the gatherings, . . .“stop being peaceful, and hurt them. Badly.”

With this sort of fascist thuggery being stage-managed and celebrated by the party of punishment, and dutifully enacted by its wounded and gullible flock, can a revived militia movement and more Oklahoma City cataclysms be far behind?

18 08 2009
JJ

Mrs C, there are way worse parental failures than what you’ve been made to worry about.

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

“What does that tell us about politics other than confirming what we already know about the sadism of conservatives, their contempt for the vulnerable, and their absence of empathy?”

Wow. How fair was that?

18 08 2009
JJ

Really, with all of that research-documented and in-his-own-words misery and dysfunction and inhumanity screaming through, THAT sentence is what you notice and take issue with, the part that disturbs you and who you choose to defend from unfair attack? Hmmm, you may be making the author’s point about how effectively this worldview is inflicted.

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

No, no. I’m saying that it does not necessarily have to be part of the conservative worldview. Have you seen me beat my kids lately? I imagine I would pass most “Are You Conservative Enough?” tests on scientifically accurate websites like Facebook and TeenTigerBeat. :p

I also see that once we use descriptives like “turd world immigration,” that the speaker is not really trying for reasoned discourse, whether he’s “conservative” or not. It’s almost like those blogs (you know the ones) where someone sits down and goes, “What nasty things can I write today about homeschoolers so I can get linked throughout cyberspace and get lots of comments?”

18 08 2009
JJ

Oh, so you mean he might have qualified that use of the word “conservative” with something like “conservatives who grew up with the punishment mindset” or something — yes? Well, okay, I just read that into the overall context and didn’t think he was indicting every individual conservative even without the explicit qualification, but yeah, I agree that it isn’t the only way to be a conservative.

Just like I don’t indict all Christians as literalists unable to think for themselves but if every single time I used the word I had to append a qualifying phrase, my polemics would be even less understandable than they are now. 🙂

18 08 2009
JJ

Which circles back into what we mean by ANY word or phrase, and how we can barely even speak (much less think for ourselves) across the misunderstanding traps set for every word and concept these days.

Mrs C, you in particular might be interested in what I posted under the public health care option just now. Dr. Andrew Weil is challenging what the real “conservative” position is on public health care systems and options and education.

Why I am a conservative on health care reform

18 08 2009
JJ

As in the original post above, no matter what we do or don’t call it:

“That’s why my old posts are not about obedience and submission to authority as education. As I like to quote, Mortimer Adler’s definition of education was ‘the freeing discipline of wonder.’ Religious education seems like an oxymoron then, unless we change our definition of religion to match, make it freeing rather than oppressive, wondrous rather than warlike, open to questions and new discovery and change. That was the thought when I wrote this:

Maybe human spirituality is evolving as we discover and accept truths not through patriarchal personification and studying ‘authoritative’ writings spelled out for our dutiful performance on demand, but through an ‘unschooled’. . .personal connection [to our own inner selves,] to each other, and to the universe as a system. . .”

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

Yeah, usually I don’t flip when someone says general things like, “conservative activists picketed (whatever) and voiced (whatever) opinion” or “liberal activists yelled (whatever) and usually believe (whatever) is important to good government” and so on. But when we get to mentioning things like “sadism” and “contempt for the vulnerable,” those aren’t just highly charged epithets, they’re also kinda hard to prove unlike my first example, true?

Can you tell whether, say, I oppose healthcare for the poor because of “contempt for the vulnerable,” or a feeling that government should stay out of private business, or just plain old stinginess because I want to keep my vast wealth to myself? Well, you can’t know unless I tell you. (It’s the vast wealth thing. *wink*)

Maybe I’m splitting hairs on that, but there is a point at which things go past political group-ism and into downright demagoguery.

Anyway, on your original re-emphasised post, I’d have to say that there are various methods to true education. God is described as telling the Israelites to go to war… and yet, He is the same God that told Solomon to build the temple and not his father, because his father David was a man of war.

I still haven’t reconciled that in my own mind, really.

But there *are* areas in which we just learn the info and move on, such as 1 plus 3 equals 4. It just does. The end. I’m not sure that God has dictated that we use ABeka curriculum and memorize from the King James. I might look around and think, “Why wouldn’t all the curriculum be keyed to the Geneva instead? Or why do we not learn Hebrew like the Jewish children?” I mean, I’m an open-minded kind of person, as long as we don’t go getting the NIV out and saying that counts.

I have looked around a fair bit and decided on mostly Bob Jones stuff. Really, when I’m looking around at curriculum, I do look at truth vs. error, but my decisions are mostly based on whether I *like* it and want to teach it. The children and I will be spending a fair bit of time in these books, and I want them to learn something (so it has to be on their level) and it needs to not be unpleasant to do. Most textbooks aren’t riddled with outright obvious error. Public school texts (at least the ones I’ve seen!) don’t include a “bow down to Satan” section as some would have me believe.

Really, teachability is my criteria for the most part. I have used public school materials in the past and haven’t died from it. It isn’t about teaching kids about power or lack of power, though I’m their mom and expect a dutiful and cheerful “Yes, ma’am,” followed by immediate obedience when they’re told to do something.

How often do I get it? Well, I’m sure there are a good plenty of people who think that I’m not employing all the proper tools (like swatting) in raising these kids. They misbehave a lot. Perhaps they would obey a lot better if I did employ these techniques, but I just don’t see justification for that sort of treatment in Scripture. (Am I answering your question? Hopefully I’m not wandering again.)

It is true that you can spare the rod and spoil the child, but I’m thinking that if Jesus tells me to “do unto others,” that that should be the new standard in the present dispensation. (But… many people think differently, and many of these have been to seminary. SO, I may just be displaying my ignorance and doing that isogesis thing. Blehhh. I’m probably prone to doing that.)

I have found a new blog about a family with a non-verbal 11 year old on the spectrum and have gotten so many new ideas! Hoping to post a velcro PECS book soon that our speech teacher is working on. I have to tell you, I’m VERY excited to have learned about PECS. Bob Jones wouldn’t work so well with this one right now.

Mmm, I’m thinking back on your post some more. Really, the divide isn’t as great as you would imagine in the lower grades where we’re just learning to count and read basic text. I don’t think, anyway. I know for myself, I didn’t start out as a “religious homeschooler,” but felt backed into that corner. And, hey! If I’m doing the teaching, I’ll pick what I want to do. :]

Why aren’t there alarmist articles about religious PUBLIC school moms? Because I still am one of those, but somehow just the religious HOMESCHOOL moms are seen as weird, yk? I’m the same mom.

18 08 2009
JJ

Lol – so you are all open-minded about which BIBLE curriculum to use as true education?

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

I think Luke would tell you that Sonlight is the best selection for homeschooling families LOL!

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

You walked into that one, JJ.

18 08 2009
boremetotears

A couple years ago, I posted a quote from a Bob Jones science text:

When the AIDS epidemic began, some people said that the disease was God’s judgment on the sins of homosexuals and fornicators since they were the primary ones affected by the disease. Many were offended by such an analysis, claiming that it is unreasonably cruel to tell people in pain that they have caused their own disease. Nevertheless, the Bible does teach that diseases that result from sexual impurity are part of God’s punishment of sin (Rom. 1:27). Such punishment is in fact evidence of God’s grace. It allows the sinner to experience the offensiveness of his sin and points him to the need for a Savior – “the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29).

I found the quote from Mike Dunford, Questionable Authority, who read and reviewed a BJU biology text, in two parts: I and II.

18 08 2009
JJ

I still don’t get that last one, Mrs C, sorry. So if I walked into anything, that would explain why. Oh well.

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

It’s ok, JJ. I was just playin’ with you. Christians are just like anyone else, and everyone has a favourite curriculum. :]

18 08 2009
Nance Confer

JJ: “And yet he is a marketing expert, very sensitive to nuance and feelings, iow not autistic.”

***

Or you can come to the conclusion that I have — he’s a manipulative prick.

Really. I have had it with the mealy-mouthed salesman. Who reminds me of the bully in clerical robes you are dealing with, Mrs. C. It’s not OK just because you work for some god.

Remind me, please, how old your son is. I see toddler and then I see this:

“And more, how to reason with others who *may* actually mean well that this dragging kids about is counter-productive? I have no alternative that isn’t time-consuming and inconvenient. And am I a hypocrite since I just bodily pick up my toddler and wash his hands to expect that? And what is going to happen to my toddler as he ages if he cannot learn that we must wash our hands after we eat, how to sit properly at the dentist, how to wait to be served at the table, etc.?”

And I think those expectations are too high for any toddler.

Catching up here. . . but this also caught my eye —

“Now, if we don’t have punishment, how should we ideally direct a child who lacks verbal understanding?”

I don’t know the answer but I know it’s not heavy-handed, literally or figuratively, “discipline.”

We’re watching the 3-yo nephew again. He doesn’t talk but understands everything and interacts very well. But I would never expect him to wait to be served or sit properly at the dentist, etc. But maybe your son is much older and I am just missing a key point in my catching up here . . .

Nance

18 08 2009
JJ

“It’s not OK just because you work for some god.”
LMAO!

18 08 2009
Mrs. C

Nance, I like Luke. I don’t think he’s like that at all, though he is a salesman. Hey, I bought Singapore Maths from his company after we started chatting. Funny, because it’s a secular program. :]

I think your confusion stems from the fact that I’m referring to different autistic children in different sentences. :] Three of my six children are autistic. G is 14, Elf is 9 and Woodjie is 2 1/2. The fun thing (note sarcasm) about this spectrum disorder is that intelligence and functionality are not necessarily the same thing. G is in special-ed this and that, and probably would not match Elf for reading even though he’s five years older. But Elf is the one that really can’t go to school, that we can’t find help with, and that got dragged across the floor in church. Woodjie is disabled across the board and I would *hope* at least that would be obvious enough that he wouldn’t be abused or thought of as manipulative. Though he got slapped there, too. I have to think that that was at least partly MY fault for not making clear that no thank you, please don’t treat my kids as though they were yours. The idea of church “family” just doesn’t go that far for me.

I’ve been told that it would be a great idea to change churches. Done that twice for kid-related reasons. Dropped two children out of public school for the same sorts of reasons. So I can’t say it’s a secular OR Christian thing to do to a kid (imo). Is it just a Missouri thing? I have to admit it’s sort of a strange state in some ways. Jesse James is a hero here!

The thing is, if you oughtn’t drag these kids about, HOW do you learn to deal with them? And knowing they can be difficult, how do I help others deal with people like Elf? A big difficulty for Elf is the lack of my presence and/or crowds of people. Maybe it isn’t fair for me to expect others to be able to handle things. Maybe other people don’t give their child a certain seat every time, always give the kid a small spoon (because he’s an elf!) when it’s dinnertime, or *not touch* his artwork. Stuff like that. BUT… he has to live in “the world.”

Not sure how to go about that. :[

18 08 2009
Nance Confer

Luke’s a likable guy.

And as for your questions — I have no idea.

I think we can eliminate dragging and slapping. Or an expectation that any stranger will have a clue. Or be particularly nice — no, that’s not a Missouri thing.

If you were visiting my house and told me in advance, I would get the special spoon and seat things. We do that — probably on a much milder level. But lining the trucks up is how the 3-yo plays with trucks. Patterns and insistence on them are familiar to me. And I could do that. I do do that — ketchup just so on this burger and not at all on that one, little things like that that will cause an entire dinner to be rejected if not done correctly. Now, my kids will reject the dinner nicely — and this is mostly DS — but the plate will be full when it comes back. Anyway, I could abide by those rules.

But will everyone get it, evenly mildly as I might? No.

Nance

18 08 2009
JJ

It’s not in the bible Mrs. C, nor in any curriculum you can buy. Start knowing that — it’s not sin and not discipline that is the issue! Do you feel the entire education system including state/national nonprofits like ChildFind etc are completely unavailable to you because of what happened at the one school? Are you somewhere there is nothing in the way of community support IRL?

(Don’t feel you need to write all these answers out here, didn’t mean that — these are just off-the-top-of-the-head resource checklist runthoughs for you, hoping maybe there will be a lead in something you can follow that will help.)

19 08 2009
Mrs. C

Nance, I think you’ve hit it. I really have felt like I need to make a “plan” of some kind, but not sure where to start. I don’t want it to be all about the guy’s likes and dislikes, because that’s not the real world, but don’t want everything to go to poo-land because people required him to do a dance to the NIV kids’ praise song or told him that elves are not real. (“But you are saying that **I** am not real!” meltdown is guaranteed.) Hm. I need to think more on it. After Woodjie got slapped in the nursery, they have POSTED the laminated sheet I gave them with ideas on how to help him.

Maybe if I just handed them a “helpful idea sheet,” and they can use ’em (or not), but at least it would be on paper somewhere. THANKS!!!

(((JJ))) Bless you, friend! I bit the bullet a bit and applied for regional center aid for Elf a couple months back. Well, it’s one of those things that they put you on a waiting list for several years… and then only help you if they get funded to do that… later…

Better than doing nothing… maybe. I am always afraid when talking to someone new that it will trigger a series of events that will bring a social worker to my door, which will lead to my children being taken away and God knows what. You aren’t an HSLDA member, I don’t imagine, so you have missed all the bulletins about what *they* do.

Then again, being afraid and not ever asking for help is not wise, either. I know they might have some stuff that is helpful for Elf, and that should be my criteria. But yikes.

The “case worker” is hopefully showing up tomorrow and I will ask for help with “life skills.” That’s education talk for being able to go to the store alone, go to homeschool learning day at the library (lots of kids, free, good trial time), but I’m not brave enough yet.

Do you think I can count “life skills” toward my homeschool hours? I could say that’s an “elective” class, and a sorely needed one, too. :]

19 08 2009
JJ

Good! Tell the case worker that you’ve consulted Dr. JJ Ross, former Deputy Director of Curriculum and Instruction for the FL Dept of Education specializing in policy issues (and once-principal of a tri-county elementary school magnet for physically disabled kids and current home education consultant) — and that SHE said all education is life skills, period!

19 08 2009
JJ

Let me give you a general image though — my idea of all learning and education is to set the learner up for success and pleasure and fun, to enjoy the healthy sort of internal motivations for seeking out and using the resources and relationships that we know will serve their continued learning, success, health and pleasure throughout life.

(This is pretty much what Temple Grandin understands not just about literal-brained human animals like herself but all animals btw — learn what the world looks like to them and then work with it, not against it — which is why she’s an international expert now, on how to calm and direct cattle, etc.)

It takes the adult learning a lot though, about developmental stages for children similar to your own and then by direct relationship with each unique individual child. Put it altogether and you’ll know pretty much what is needed. Then you have to figure out how to use what you’ve got available or can afford or trade for, to somehow create that reality.

My expert opinion of what is NOT educationally sound would be punishment, failure, shame, mocking, unhappiness, almost anything coerced even if its aim is sound, e.g tooth-brushing, vegetable eating, bedtimes and waking up on time, washing, reading, sharing, schooling, socializing etc.)

The idea with any child (here’s what Nance was getting at) is to intensively support their early learning that the world is a great place full of wonder and they are capable of engaging it in all sorts of delightful, intriguing ways to find out more about it, just because. That becomes the passion, the Life Skill to end all life skills, the One Truth — learning feels good and other people are interesting and fun to be around, the thing that makes self-learners and socially competent citizens.

Again very generally, the best way to help that eventually happen is first to create a little mini-world in which all these things are actually true for that child (in your own home if that’s the only place you can control it.) All babies and children are completely egocentric and they literally need to feel totally secure that you love them and the world works for them as who they are NOW, not who you want to make them for college or when you die, etc.

19 08 2009
JJ

Mrs C, please hear me though. Most teachers and preachers and neighbors and babysitters and even relatives, also most homeschoolers and especially the conservative Christians and especially southerners, may seem loving and willing to post your sheet but they will not be good for your child if they don’t really understand and believe what Nance and I are telling you we believe.

Most of this isn’t a problem with what’s inside your child’s head. It’s what is inside theirs, how THEY were reared and educated, what they’ve been taught about the world. The person may be well-intended and benign enough, even loving but it matters so much what a child learns about the world when he’s little, that as an adult, it’s hard-wired into the lizard brain and people don’t even know it. They do believe they are doing the right thing, and often literally that it’s “god’s voice” whispering and guiding them. (Really it’s their own early childhood experiences short-circuiting their conscious mind and making certain things “feel” real.)

So they can’t help it and you can’t change them, but you CAN start to believe it’s real and recognize it and keep your children away from it so it doesn’t get inflicted and perpetuated.

19 08 2009
Mrs. C

This is hard, JJ. The two principles, then, of getting Elf to be outside Mom’s world and with others, that he is a social being… and the fact that others are not going to necessarily view the world in a loving way… these are opposed to one another. The best I can hope for is a sort of balance, esp. as regards the fact that I cannot just go *anywhere* with Woodjie in tow. :[

The case worker came by this morning and I feel like I’m gonna barf. She is totally new to this and says that likely it will be years before we get real services, but between now and then, his case will probably be bounced from one worker to another. That’ll be fun. :]

Oh, but that’s not what makes me feel sick. She is working with another family whose child is being locked up at the school Elf left. I guess our area is notorious with special educators etc. and I wish I knew that BEFORE moving in 12 years ago…

19 08 2009
Mrs. C

I keep thinking about that other kid. I think it is just as well I am not a professional anything and “just a mom.” I would freak out and cry every day on the job. And she was crying telling me about her struggles trying to work with the school.

It is a sad, sad thing that I was able to help HER find more resources… and more than that, to warn her in advance that all she would be doing is creating a paper trail and praying for that day someday when our stories come out.

I really do feel physically sick today; good thing I’m a lady of leisure and don’t have to work!!

19 08 2009
Nance Confer

Yep, we ladies of leisure who just spend all our time taking care of our children . . well, at least we know what learning looks like. And living in a loving environment.

Your experience with the SW was pretty awful compared to what my niece went through with DN. But he was/is just sort of delayed — due to his parents neglecting him the first year of his life, and he’ll be fine. My opinion, of course, and I am only a lady of leisure. 🙂

Anyway, yes, JJ. That’s what I was thinking, I guess. That a loving home now is the most important thing. Not just sort of important but vastly more important than any of the other things.

I can’t speak to how any of this works in your world, Mrs. C. Your world is cluttered with things like church. And plans for the future for your children. And those are magnified beyond management as far as I can see. We all worry about our kids but your worries are bigger. Justifiably so or not.

So I was talking not so much about making a list of to-dos for the nursery. But in making the list for yourself. And then figuring out which, if any, of these services come up to your standards. If your standards include not hitting, a place that hits can’t be a good choice. Etc.

What did you want the SW to suggest/offer? What services would help? Are you clear in your own mind about what you want and need for your kids? That was as far as I had gotten in my thinking with no solutions visible yet.

Nance

19 08 2009
Mrs. C

Oh, yeah, I know *just what I want.* If I had a sister, it would be free.

Someone besides me that can take him to the store a few times. Then, someone besides me that can halfway watch him (you know what I mean) while he shops on his own.

Then he goes to the store and buys his favourite food by himself!

It really wouldn’t take any special training, but because I’m “Mom,” it isn’t helping him be independent when I do it, now, is it?? :]

I also want him to go to preschool story time and/or homeschool library time and be ok with people near him. And teach him to say, I really need a break away from everyone before I get overwhelmed… before he gets overwhelmed. That one I’m not sure how to do and need help on.

But… the meeting happened pretty much as I expected. Depends on funding, etc. and there is a long wait list. Well, his needs could change between now and then… but I guess I will just wait and see and hold his spot anyway. :]

Probably the problems are very magnified for Elf and G in my mind as they are older, and not enough for Woodjie as I can’t imagine the trials he’ll go through if he’s non-verbal as an adult. That is probably not exaggerated enough because I don’t want to think about it… I keep hoping he will suddenly start chatting with me. In full sentences with JJ’s vocabulary.

19 08 2009
Nance Confer

LOL! Well, most of us will never achieve that! 🙂

OK, trying to keep the kids straight in my head — “Three of my six children are autistic. G is 14, Elf is 9 and Woodjie is 2 1/2.” So, it’s G you want to go shopping? And it’s Elf who can’t be without you?

Sorry I seem slow. I am. I’m tired.

Is there a Big Brother-type program for autistic kids that could help with your concerns about G? Someone who would make the long-term commitment to get to know G and slowly ease into outings? That you could learn to trust. 🙂

What new way can we think about Elf getting out into the world? Can we start with not being embarrassed? Who cares what the store clerk thinks? And the African guy wasn’t insulted. It was just you cringing.

Is all of this using the church and the nursery because there are 6 kids? And you just need some hands to help? How about the local college? Community college? Nursing school? Maybe there is some sweet young girl who is studying special ed or psychology or somesuch who could be talked into thinking of helping you as her volunteer hours.

What else can be done to work on the concrete things?

Nance

19 08 2009
Mrs. C

G is actually *fine* with most things unless he feels insulted or things are unjust. He also needs some regularly scheduled moving breaks and that sort of thing. I’m really *impressed* with the way the school can help him. Having the routine of an “institutional” education (if you will) is actually of great benefit to him. He is easily manipulated and that sort of thing, but I suppose parents of neurotypical kids (esp. girls!) can worry about that as well.

Elf is the one that wants to be with Mom all the time. How much of that is “Elf” and how much of that is “Elf has learned that people outside family are not to be trusted” is uncertain.

Hm… the “outside hands to help” idea isn’t a bad one! Wonder what-all is available in the community. (I haven’t found much.) Come to think of, since the school is kind to G, I might ask if the Jr. High special ed people have any ideas. Probably can’t hurt…

Ok, that’s a great idea!

20 08 2009
Nance Confer

Oh, how nice. I feel like I accomplished something! (Don’t destroy my pre-coffee delusion. 🙂 ) I hope you find a “helping hand” — or two!

Nance

20 08 2009
JJ

“I keep hoping he will suddenly start chatting with me. In full sentences with JJ’s vocabulary.”

😀
They tell me I was born speaking in paragraphs and after the initial surprise wore off, they secretly worried I would never stop again. Apparently I talked so exhaustively that my little brother didn’t speak at all until he was almost four. I would wax rhapsodic in full linguistic flower, translating what I imagined to be his every thought, feeling, need and desire and he would just listen. I remember my mother (an only child) telling me years later, that studying child psychology in college hadn’t really prepared her for us at all.

20 08 2009
Mrs. C

No delusion, Nance. I’ll really look into it next week. I’m overwhelmed with “homework” from four different therapists this week for Woodjie and Rose. Rose is actually getting some help although she doesn’t *technically* qualify for First Steps. They used “professional judgment,” which is great because that sorta means the hard and fast rules don’t apply here and they’re recognizing that she has some *ahem* cultural issues in that her first language is PECS. (Really.)

JJ, I can well believe that story!!

Myself, I’m just in tears with pride because I was brushing the girl’s hair and Woodjie was getting so upset when I told him he couldn’t have the brush. “No. Mama do for Girlie.”

“Gee-gee do!”

Well, ok, then. Words just scored ya a pink hairbrush. Yippeeee!

20 08 2009
JJ

Smart move mama. I think you’ve got good instincts and a lot of this figured out already. 🙂

And a moment to celebrate tonight too!

21 08 2009
Crimson Wife

“Apparently I talked so exhaustively that my little brother didn’t speak at all until he was almost four. I would wax rhapsodic in full linguistic flower, translating what I imagined to be his every thought, feeling, need and desire and he would just listen.”

My older two are like this. My older DD was talking in complete sentences by age 2 and has. not. shut. up. since. :-& My DS has articulation and language delay issues and for a long time was perfectly happy to let his big sis do the talking for him. It took almost a year of speech therapy before we could coax him to speak up for himself.

Judging from the baby’s babbling and signing, she’s going to be another big talker. So my poor DS really is going to have a tough time getting a word in edgewise!

21 08 2009
Crimson Wife

Okay, how do I get Mr. Rolleyes to show up????? 😎

21 08 2009
Crimson Wife

That didn’t look right either. 8)

21 08 2009
JJ

Maybe this is a big as-yet-unmined research area that CW and I need federal funding to work on (at home) for several years of intense observations. Then we can become famous experts on it, write a book and do a tour . . .

20 10 2010
24 10 2011
“I Live in the Future” Where Video Gameplay Is Real-Life Learning Is « Cocking A Snook!

[…] Home Education Currciulum That Swings Both Ways: I remember puzzling over a related post at her place, in which one teen son was being taught how contemplative bible study holds every answer, even to modern secular education issues such as video games and television. (Need I add there’s no television in that home’s education?) […]

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