Before she knew Barack Obama much less Sarah “Pallin’ around with Terrorists” Palin and Joe “You Lie” the Plumber — um, Wilson — JJ once wrote:
I feel like we’ve been fighting each other so long that it’s not about fighting for competing goals or visions any more, as much as it is the fight itself. . .
I’m not in the hole alone, and dirt is flying all around me.
IF it’s really completely hopeless, and we always must be at war among ourselves just because we’re human, then progressive thinkers can at least admit it to ourselves and figure out how to integrate THAT into our world view. It would be more honest.
She concluded much later by asking, “So — now what?” None of us could answer that then, beyond another shift in party power. Can we (any of us) do any better now?
In October 2006, Culture Kitchen was hosting serious, honest good-government talk among Thinking Citizens. Remember way back then? The GOP was in authoritarian command and control (government as god and guns for private profits) but an election was on the horizon and Scientist-Democrat-blogger Mole wrote a post making the case that
“Democrats Stand for Honest Government“
The Republican Party is imploding because of corruption. Their corruption has already sent Randy Cunningham to jail and forced the resignation of Tom DeLay and Mark Foley. In Ohio and Missouri and Kentucky their corruption is shocking. And voters are tired of it.
The Republicans try to cover up their corruption, lying for each other. They even protected a sexual predator for six years! When faced with corruption in their ranks, Republicans lie and cover their tracks. Their final defense is to whine pitifully, “but the Democrats do it too!”
Well, Democrats have indeed been known to be corrupt. But there are differences. . . We attack Republican corruption and on the rare occasions it comes up we attack Democratic corruption as well. I see no comparable reform movement within the Republican Party. All I see are more lies, more sleaze and more greed. All I see are Republicans and companies like Halliburton and Exxon and Enron in an orgy of greed and profit, looting America and sacrificing American troops for profit.
. . .Republicans wallow in corruption. Democrats are fighting corruption.
So Nance (longtime Democrat) and JJ (longtime independent non-partisan) engaged this argument, in ways disconcertingly relevant this morning in January 2010, knowing what we know now and having just watched the State of the Union last night — President Barack Obama (longtime Democrat) appealing to GOP power brokers and especially to us longtime independent non-partisans.
I recommend you go to Culture Kitchen and read the whole conversation because we weren’t the only ones thinking and talking, but here are some excerpts just from JJ and Nance:
Just Can’t Buy It
Submitted by
JJ Ross on 11 October 2006 -
That ship has sailed, hopefully for the last time with a majority of American voters innocently at the pier waving goodbye and welcoming in the new.
However earnest and sincere individual candidates and operatives may be, polls and personal observations persuade me neither Rs nor Ds will be able to dump a load of “purity and honesty” cargo on us to just buy on faith and pay for later, and maybe that’s a good thing.
Some new third party for the same old system isn’t my idea of change, either. The system is corrupt, nobody does it better, and we’re just not in the media mass market for any more cheap and peeling tricks with a fresh coat of paint slapped on,peddled as progressive government.
I suffer from chronic liar,liar, pants on fire exhaustion, like nearly everyone I know in ordinary family life. Say we ARE collectively in the mood for real change, toward something that really is more honest and productive than we’ve constituted as government in our lifetime. What would we suggest, without the union (or any other) label I mean? There ought to be ideas other than soundbite-slogan partisan ones we can at least start imagining and working toward, building new frames, having new conversations . . .
Unpacking Corruption
I’d unpack the sins and slogans a little differently is all (I am not R or Green or any other festive party color.)
Yes, of course, honesty is the right direction, so great for us all if some Dems are heading that way or at least acknowledging it’s the right direction. But it’s not just because they ARE Dems though, is it, really? And they aren’t all alike, nor are all R pols or us independents.
And are they really the only ones you see moving that way? That’s all I’m saying, not throwing out rhetoric, honest!
The poll says I’m not alone in seeing dishonesty in too many places and all the wrong faces . . .
I think your case can be made reasonably to the public but ironically, it would have to be a masterpiece of brutal, humble honesty! To work would mean full disclosure, one party owning up to ALL the lies and coverups and dirty tricks from impeachment and investigations to treating sex scandals with young pages, interns and secretaries differently depending on the perp’s party registration. Without that everyone seems like whores, and I don’t mean seduced women or boys – I mean the powerful politicians who took the oath to represent us faithfully and then screwed us and our children instead.
Speaking only for myself as one disillusioned middle-aged mom who doesn’t follow party politics much anymore, on or offline, this really is just my own thinking over time, not any party’s rhetoric — I DO see you as being personally honest and trying to head toward better government through hard truths handled with less self-serving power plays and egomania. Otherwise I wouldn’t have been likely to read your thoughts much less bother to comment.
Did you hear cable news the other day, something about the female demographic over decades being generally more liberal yet also more thoroughly disgusted with the lying and destruction of hardball party politics? If I’m any example, it’s true, believe it!
So I am honestly asking (not to quarrel but because I am interested in how you really see this and in finding solutions that work for us all) why you’d believe that shouting “we’re honest!” through a bullhorn out the front window can get Dems where you want them to go with skeptical women voters like me, when there’s an unacknowledged cigar burning a hole through some soiled blue dress “lying” in the back seat, its stale rhetorical smoke about private sex-as-power in the highest halls of government stinking to high heaven.
Campaign finance reform
Absolutely. Has to happen. Yes.
Do I think either party’s leaders can make it happen or even really want it? Nope. A big reason why I think we need to break out of the party mindset to make real progress toward our common goals.
**************
Then from Nance:
You want to
know why the Foley scandal is so annoying? Because the Republicans paint themselves as pure as the driven snow. Then, like any other set of human beings, stuff happens. It is so much easier to turn on someone who has been preaching at you.
So, great. Democrats are against corruption. Some of them — including you — are doing what should be done.
But don’t pin too many medals on the Dems just for trying to be decent. It will be very unseemly when, inevitably, one of those pins bursts the purity balloon.
I expect and want reality from Dems. Not piety.
Nance
And back to JJ:
I Think You’re Right
with everything you say politically — about there being some important differences worth defining, and which of those favor the Dems, and that the effect of garden-variety disillusionment is to depress turnout all around, likely soften the blow against the currently more vulnerable (Rs.)
I actually don’t equate the parties, hadn’t even considered it (I connect everything, equate nothing!) So I don’t mean to distract you with having to make that case. It’s not necessary, for me at least.
But triumphant Dems in office claiming this time it will be different while controlling the same old corrupt and self-serving Death of Common Sense system, that’s failed us so many different ways already that I can’t hear any political claim without the counter-claim popping unbidden into my brain, just isn’t sufficient to compel my time and treasure any more.
And I don’t think Rs “are imploding because of corruption.” I think it’s because Read the rest of this entry »
Tim Tebow: The Boy Who Lived
6 02 2010. . .destined to grow up as an example to us all. Of — um –
Are you ready for some football?
(Olympic Excess coming up next!)
We homeschooling families like learning at home in our living rooms, especially for free. You could even say we celebrate it! But you’re a Thinking Parent as well, so think about this — is “Celebrate Family, Celebrate Life” a sports message best taught on tv as multi-million dollar ad wars? Or is it paid political speech we’ve learned from real-world experience celebrates division and shooting to kill, the kind of combative warfare all learned people know that neither Christ nor America was ever about, despite false advertising through the ages?
What lessons are being taught in our living rooms, not by individual homeschooling parents or great literary characters like the Boy Who Lived but by corporate-controlled televised sports as entertainment, and is it sacred business, serious business, or funny business (if business has any business teaching any of us any of it?)
Who in this story capitalizes, controls, one might even say conjures, this unarguably public education for which corporate America is unelected and unaccountable?
What if Tim Tebow had been born gay instead of gridiron-gifted? Would his mom still have been chosen for her choice to teach SuperBowl fans everywhere her ethics and how to define “family and life” worth celebrating? What if her unaborted son once grown to be a sports star, openly credited magic rather than miracles? Would he still have been chosen by CBS to dramatically break the network’s policy against advocacy ads mixed with hero worship? Is ignoring your doctor’s advice as Pam Tebow (and Sarah Palin) chose for themselves and apparently preach as mom gospel to everyone including the Supreme Court, a lesson CBS will be held accountable for as both profit-seeking and public broadcast system?
Here’s something your children will NOT learn about celebrating family and life watching the CBS SuperBowl:
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