I showed you the t-shirt I’d wear back to school myself this fall, if I were going. It says something about what I believe in. 🙂
But Meg got a huffy comment from an (apparent) Christian creationist, offended and scolding her because ON HER OWN BLOG Meg posted some t-shirts her family found meaningfully fun, like this:
See Meg’s response here.
Then there’s news from my own old school district, the one for which I literally wrote the policy manual, back in the 80s. The new lawyer when I was working on that two-year project, a fellow I considered not just a colleague but a friend, is the same lawyer now quoted in this national news story about t-shirts at school that teach the wrong lesson.
These blood-red-lettered t-shirts got several Alachua County School students wearing them, including one 10-year-old, removed from the learning environment as not part of what we want kids learning at school:
“ISLAM IS OF THE DEVIL”
Inquiring minds want to know: why does such a message form the core curriculum of a group calling itself The Dove World Outreach Center? I was taught to think of “peace” in association with “dove” but either I was miseducated or these folks aren’t using words in academically defensible ways.
[UPDATE: or in legally defensible ways? — check out this related Gainesville Sun story about the “Dove Center” in which the hidden curriculum is not about dress codes but tax codes. . .]
And this lesson is meant not just to push itself into public school but to supplant education itself, not just for the t-shirt wearers but for everyone, unless and until the rest of us stand up and say it ain’t so, and offer a different lesson.
OTOH, I suppose their t-shirt teaching should earn some virtue points for honesty at least, if you disregard the sneaky name and take their leader at his um, word:
“Church Senior Pastor Terry Jones tells The Gainesville Sun newspaper that spreading the church’s message is more important than education.”
Finally (I love it when a theme comes together) here’s an honest, factual t-shirt lesson that deals with neither science nor religion nor politics — and yet when worn to “school” it offended and inflamed other students to the point some reportedly threw food at it!
Cocking A Snook! 
oh, I love that shirt!
Yeah, I guess its lesson is — that it’s not just what you know but how you say it, when, to whom?
😉
Back when I was educating myself to send messages with my clothes inside the Alachua County Schools:“the whole point was to wear clothes that wouldn’t be an issue!”
Other Snooking around, related to “dressing up beliefs as lessons” from different angles:
SChool Cultures: Disasters and Dress Codes:
Should Increasing Knowledge Be Left Behind?
I figure what a person chooses to wear or say, says more about themselves than what they are saying.
So — what they choose to say, says more than what they are saying? Huh?
That last shirt is simply mean to people who don’t want to have the twist endings of movies revealed before they get the chance to watch them 😦
But it’s all “true’ — inarguably. What would be interesting is to think about whether it would be meaner, or not, if it weren’t true, if the ending revelations were false!
Exactly, what someone chooses to say about others, says more about themselves than what they are saying about someone else. Think it’s a Confucius quote or someone like that.
You know, if someone put the twist ending to a movie on their shirt and the movie had just come out, I would feel put upon.
But it seems to me that all those movies (and TV show) were from long enough ago that the twists are well known. Why get upset about it?
So it wouldn’t “spoil” much for most people? And if you aren’t a film-goer you won’t care that much in the first place maybe. OTOH, the Islam shirt isn’t true and we know it, and I am not of Islam, yet it’s offensive to me. So maybe those film students who already know all the endings were nevertheless outraged for more universal humanitarian type reasons, you know, because it will hurt others in a way they can relate to and would care about if it WERE them? (Seems like Christian students would feel the same way about the Islam shirt then?)
Exactly, Meg. These are spoilers only if you haven’t seen any movies in the last decade or so.
Maybe the movie students were protecting their chosen faith and worship at the altar of spoilers and don’t tolerate blasphemers?
The Christians who tolerate hate? Hard to figure how that is OK in any religion. But if it gets them out of paying property taxes, apparently that’s all it takes for some. Like that creation museum guy who was shut down recently.
Nance
It’s kind of like which came first–the chicken or the egg…. Who began hating whom first? Do non-christians feel that they are hated by christians so that makes it fair game to hate back? Or do christians feel that they are hated by non-christians first, so they are free to hate back? And that christians are hypocrites for hating because they are taught to NOT hate? and all non-christians are free of hypocrisy because they are free to hate because they profess no loyalty or claim to any such morals, values or principles? Not that they don’t have morals, values or principles. It is very clear that the “science” t-shirt would only be humorous to someone that feels that religion is silly or stupid. That is clearly implied and seems indisputable. If not, what is funny about it? As far as putting it out there on the internet and getting a negative response–why would anyone think that they’re safe from any negative or opposing viewpoints anywhere on the internet? For example, I do not care for pornography and yet I have run into it accidentally on the internet. Meg knows I’m computer-illiterate at times. I’ve run into it. So does that mean it should be restricted on the internet because of those that do not want it there? Should there be stricter “guidelines” to the ability to access porn on the internet? It’s the same w/ any other topic out there. There’s always more than one viewpoint. My point is just that it’s the internet. If you put yourself out there, what you get back might not always be what you were hoping for or expecting. To cry foul seems pointless. If you’re going to dish it out–you gotta be able to take it!
Hello from the huffy (apparent) Christian creationist commenter from Meg’s blog. I wasn’t trying to be huffy – apparently I sucked at that goal. I was just simply saying, I don’t think it’s fair to call an entire group of people stupid simply for having faith. And also, I’d prefer to be labeled as a liberal Christian commenter. I make no claim that creationism is fact. And I also want to say the Islam shirt in your post makes me want to puke. Ugh. I just don’t get why anyone would be so full of hate.
Hi Brandie, welcome. I’m glad to see that way of comparing these different t-shirt messages because I think you’re onto something. They all feel like pushback, don’t they, meant to make the wearer seem superior in some way and other folks feel stupid and/or intimidated? That’s what the spoiler shirt shares with the other two.
The top two are both about religious rivalry and power to rule the rest of us, which is why both believers and nonbelievers “get” it and react strongly about it. Religion is what HSLDA lawyer Scott Somerville always called “a matter of ultimate concern.” And then the one in the middle (Islam is of the devil) is the most obviously worst of all three shirts imo because it’s dead serious, not fun and no joke. That intimidation isn’t intellectual but the kind that gets people killed on earth and makes claims about eternal damnation to boot.
I agree with whoever said Confederate battle flag shirts do the same thing. It’s a mistake to think that’s a “pro” shirt like my Gator love team shirt. Just because it doesn’t come right out and slam others, the message can’t escape history and DOESN’T WANT TO — which is the message in the first place. It’s pushback. Gun-slinging, a shot across the social-cultural bow to announce you’re part of a separate “us” that wants no part of “them.”
Then bring School into it. A large captive and impressionable audience you can advertise to FREE all day long, just get your product or pushback message on a kid! Remember we’re talking about these as back-to-school shirts, and at school such challenges to duel ARE disruptive and do start riots (I’ve been caught up in them at school myself) and it can happen no matter who we feel looks stupid, the confrontational wearer or the confronted reader, the one who pushes or the one who pushes back, or all the rest so weary of the crossfire they decide to enlist.
Which brings us to a useful thinking point:
Where do seemingly non-confrontational WWJD shirts and choose life or true love waits type shirts, fall on this scale? Honestly, if we Thinking Parents here approach it with good will as analysts across the spiritual-scientific spectrum, wouldn’t we all have to agree they too are at least partly pushback, part rivalry, part “us” as superior to “them” — and if we can’t, does that show just how seriously and irrationally divisive t-shirt messages can be??
Interesting choice of pics. Do you not see that the first “try religion” shirt is just as hateful and inflammatory as the “Islam is of the Devil” shirt? But which kid would get sent home or asked to cover?
Apparently, it’s only ok to offend Christians and blaspheme their god. I wouldn’t encourage my child to wear either shirt, but I think both should be allowed in the public schools. If that marketplace of ideas thing is too much for these people, perhaps they should try school uniforms.
Mrs. C is thinking too! 🙂
We have a good start, let’s see what we can do with it.
The shirt-pushing pastor above said:
“. . .spreading the church’s message is more important than education.”
When I read these words, it hit me how this belief itself (not the t-shirt message) is really what divides us as “Americans.” Conservative Christian homeschool bloggers say this all the time, in every discussion. Spunky for example. Scott too. Mrs C echoed it recently, defining education as nothing but religion, learning to love and obey god period, even if certain “church” teachings displace or defy reason and reality. So I wondered how many religious parents would put THAT on their kids’ t-shirts and maybe wear a larger size themselves, a gun in one hand, a bible in the other, en masse, to town hall meetings and the polling place, let’s say.
And I wondered if those who see that message as dangerous hate speech being used to keep kids ignorant and to foment theocratic overthrow akin to what’s happened in Islamic societies, would get the message before it’s too late.
From the huffy Christian lady: “I don’t think it’s fair to call an entire group of people stupid simply for having faith.”
That’s not what the t-shirt says. It’s about people who reject science.
Personally, I don’t see how science and faith co-exist in a single brain. But the t-shirt isn’t ruling that possibility out. If the faithful are smart enough not to reject science in the first place.
Nance
Thanks Nance, that’s a good way to say it.
As for JJ’s thought about WWJD and the other examples she used (which for some reason do not stick in my head for any length of time) I do think they are on par with these shirts. They are a “push back” at the same level. They feel very much in your face to me. Now IRL, I let them drift by in public and they become chuckles to share at home.
And it’s funny that you should bring up the Confederate flag. In our discussions with Girls about the shirts we have been talking about the reasons shirts with that or gang symbols aren’t allowed under freedom of speech in the schools. The question becomes where do you draw the line?
Right Meg. And despite the second amendment for example, loaded guns aren’t allowed at school any more than the first amendment allows loaded t-shirts at school.
And conversely, the myriad “pro” religion messages don’t come right out and say that an entire group of people are wicked and damned simply for not having faith, for rejecting religious belief.
Even though I tend to read them that way. 🙂
So I’d say Nance is right that both shirts do mean to make an entire group feel stupid and inferior but only when the shoe (shirt?) fits them. And the best defense no matter what “group” you might be in, is to be intellectually and morally self-confident because you’ve thought all this through for yourself.
Depends on who gets to draw the line. :]
But the Christian message of sin and salvation MUST be the most important message, if you truly believe it. I should hope that whether my child believes in Jesus is the most important thing in his life. These other arguments are peripheral. But since we’re just talking about what should be allowed to be worn at school and not so much the relative merit of my faith, I’m just saying that whatever standard is applied should be applied evenly.
The ISSUE is only the tolerance of differing opinions that are not expressed as the reader would wish. The issue isn’t really whether you or I or anyone else thinks the opinions expressed on a shirt are rational. Otherwise, all these “Vote for Pedro” kids would be sent home, true?
I suppose there are other, friendlier ways to express those latent emotions of anger that the Christian worldview is under siege. If we need more “pro-” or positive-sounding shirts as JJ implied, perhaps I could print up stuff like, “The Angel of Light (heart) Islam” with some kittens or something on the back, see if the Dove Outreach Center wants to sell my new, hip, school-friendly design and make lotsa money.
YES, I am kidding… but only just barely. Really, I think there are more important things to get riled about, but I think this is akin to the dueling Darwin and Jesus fishes in the parking lot. It may be more about identifying oneself as a member of a subgroup than converting anyone to a given opinion.
I don’t see anyone on the blog here clamouring for those uniforms yet… :p
“It may be more about identifying oneself as a member of a subgroup than converting anyone to a given opinion.”
That’s right — but that is what gang symbols are about too. And they are banned at school. For the same reason. That is literally divisive as in it divides us into warring tribes, leads to intimidation and violence and eventually, loss of human dignity, reason, and life.
Yes, I agree that the Islam shirt is by far the worst of them for sure!
I don’t follow the HSLDA at all. We almost joined, and then I realized they used funds for more than just homeschooling issues and mix in that they seem to not really like unschoolers, it was not a place getting my money.
As far as do wwjd shirts and other such things feel in my mind, okay, I’ll admit it, they don’t give me reaction. Nor does someone wearing a shirt with Earth Goddess or that says Namaste on it bother me. Because even though it promotes religion, it doesn’t do it while putting down other groups. I’ll think more about it and read comments here and ponder it more though because clearly it can bother other people.
And to Nance, plenty of people have religion and science in a single brain. I’m not sure why you find it so surprising. I know lots of people who feel that way.
Ok, so…
Are you saying that we should ban the duelling fishes as well as the gang symbols? Trying to clarify.
Well – I guess I am saying we can’t know WHAT to do, about anything, without being able to think it through. “It” imo is a grievous mistake no matter what the end result, if we arrive at that “it” based on how we feel or what we fear or how many of us can intimidate others.
So without the education and effort and good will toward all other humans as our fellows, that taken together will enable us to work together and govern ourselves wisely, etc, it just doesn’t matter. To me there can be no right answer imposed on us by other humans who claim that right.
JJ wrote: “OTOH, the Islam shirt isn’t true and we know it
Is it false? I don’t see how that statement could be proved or disproved through the power of human reason. The existence of Satan is a matter of faith, and there is no way for humans to know with 100% certainty what role (if any) he had to play in any historical event. Did God appear to Mohammad? Did the Devil? Did Mohammad simply make the whole thing up? All we have is his account, and we can choose to either believe it (if we are Muslims) or disbelieve it (if we are not).
The statement “Islam is of the Devil” may be false or it may be true. I don’t know and frankly I’ve got enough other things to worry about in my own life. But it *IS* inappropriate for a school setting since it denigrates others.
Another example of a shirt I recently saw that would be inappropriate for a school setting, no matter how funny I personally found it. I should’ve taken a photo but didn’t think to at the time. It read:
I’d tell those skinny moms who eat nothing but organic food to kiss my [vulgar term for one’s backside], but my [backside] might have chemicals on it!”
Hey, while we’re banning T-shirts and stifling all that free speech about chemicals (LOL, that was icky, CW!!), can we also send home the kindergarteners who have “little hottie” and other semi-sexual sayings on their shirts? Or the “will sell my sister for video games” shirts? (How many self-respecting black males do you see wearing that one? I thought so.)
I would tend to allow all that stuff though it does imo seem to encourage a flippant attitude toward unlawful behaviour, but if the other stuff should be taken out, surely the kid-sex and kid-slavery things have to go, too.
Two notes:
Perhaps giving up on the idea that being a member of the majority religion in a country somehow puts you on an endangered list and therefore gives any credence to self-defensive t-shirts or anything else, would be a start. Christians who persist in saying they are being persecuted here have no credibility. It flies in the face of all the experiences we all have in going through life as an American. Y’all aren’t being persecuted just because there’s a D in the White House or because the rest of us don’t want to hear about your god all the time. And it would be a sign of clearer thinking if that line were dropped from all the standard scripts.
And the skinny moms/fat-assed moms t-shirt sounds great! 🙂
Nance
Brandie —
You wrote: “And to Nance, plenty of people have religion and science in a single brain. I’m not sure why you find it so surprising. I know lots of people who feel that way.”
I’m sure you do know lots of people who feel that way. We’ve all heard lots of people say they feel that way.That really doesn’t mean anything though.
And what I meant was I don’t understand how people can hold such conflicting ideas in their minds. Not that there aren’t plenty of people who say they do hold those conflicting ideas. Just that it sounds like it must be hard on your brain.
Nance
I once suggested that everybody flies naked would solve all the airline security problems. I’m starting to think everybody goes to school naked might be useful too 🙂
CW, I have no patience for that kind of sophistry any more, not when people are abusing “freedom of speech” and religious privilege to incite assassination. It is NOT okay and it’s not freedom and it’s not enlightenment, knowledge, logic, morals or following anybody’s bible. Period.
It was hate speech and it was untrue because there’s no sense in which it can possibly BE true except in religious fantasy. The Secret Service has contacted this man and rightly so:
Preaching hate and violence against Barack Obama
LOL Chris, I suggested something similar about flying except it had a religious twist (Islam as it happens.) Make people put panties on their heads and if they will, let them through screening at the airport automatically because they aren’t fundamentalist Muslims at least . . .
JJ, this guy has been around a long time. You will enjoy watching this video:
I’m a King James fan myself, but don’t see how a translation means that men must pee standing up or become sissified. 😛
Mockable, irrelevant and just stupid, that’s all. But I didn’t enjoy this one:
in which he uses hate speech from the pulpit specifically to incite the guy who takes a loaded gun to the Obama town hall meeting in Phoenix the NEXT DAY.
He says he was saved at age six but his god made Barack Obama into an animal, a beast, so wicked and beastly he’s comparable to Stalin etc etc. This is the rhetorical dehumanizing process we’ve been discussing a lot lately, that precedes the successful incitement to violence and yes, assassination.
And if you think that’s chilling but maybe just misguided, think about this:
“While Pastor Steven Anderson has incited Chris Broughton to bring loaded weapons to the President’s speech, the Bible is what has incited Pastor Anderson.”
Here is MY idea of wicked:
Is the state’s law forbidding adoption by gay people protection for children, or bigotry? A Miami appeals court must decide.”
(McCollum wants to be our NEXT governor, as if the Catholic Terri Schiavo kidnapper followed by the hurricane pray-away panderer weren’t more than what I should be called upon by “Christians” to endure in one personally secular, professionally policy-proficient lifetime . . .)
Nance and Brandie’s discussion about whether religion and science can be in a single brain reminded me of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty1Bo6GmPqM
Time Magazine:
😉
Amen.
And Meg, the dishonesty revealed by this video is just one of so many examples of IOKIYAC thinking. Maybe it’s one of the symptoms of belief in the supernatural and appreciation for science trying to co-exist in the same brain. You end up not being able to tell truth from lie or at least being OK with lying. And the more publicly you push your views onto others, the less your are required to stick to facts.
Nance
I must be missing something somewhere- how do we get from an “Islam is the Devil” t-shirt to some nutcase preacher claiming that God hates Pres. Obama and that Obama cannot be saved?
Incidentally, I’d ask that preacher why Saul of Tarsus- who actually killed one of Jesus’ disciples -can be saved and ultimately turned into one of the greatest evangelists in history but not Pres. Obama. But I suspect he’d probably consider me a heathen for being Catholic 😎
[…] let us review what we’ve learned. T-shirt messages at school are powerful enough to disrupt the learning environment. Hats at school are even more powerful; a serious hat can send a disruptive message with no words […]
[…] Thinking Parents have studied school messages from curriculum to t-shirts to “serious hats.” But now Nance — oh, those shoes are better but stop sulking, […]
I lurk, a lot….but after reading this and all the amazing comments, I just had to post. I am so sick and tired of the evil men who use religion to further their beliefs and ideas. I may not agree with Obama on a lot of things (Bush either for that matter) but I have no hate for him. I do not believe he deserves to die. Sick! Nance, I apologize for my lack of knowing all acronyms, but what is IOKIYAC? I hold no ill will toward anyone of religious bent, but I do not understand this behavior. I never will. I was brought up in a strict religious household and I saw just as much “evil” inside religion/religious groups as outside of it. Humans have the choice to be, believe and act as they do. Even children, like myself, can grow up and see truth. I don’t know if there is one real God, but I do know that many wonderful individuals have taught truth, love, peace and really meant it. I know that some “supernatural” things, unexplainable things, happen. Science has not been able to explain them all. I like that not everything can be defined or explained. What is difficult is understanding why someone would want to send their child to school in the Islam t-shirt or why they believe every Muslim is the same. Not every Christian is the same. We have sick, twisted Christians out there too.
When I read the Bible I got a very different take on it than most of my fellow classmates. Maybe my brain was wired differently. I don’t know. I was treated as an outcast. The one who didn’t get into drugs, alcohol, teen sex, just wasn’t interested. All my Christian classmates did and I got teased and berated for believing supposedly what they did. It made no sense. Why is it that those who create shirts like this are usually the hypocrites? What drives these people? Fame? Money? The need to be in control? Power? All of the above? I will never understand the bitter hatred. I disagree with censorship, let them wear what they may, what they choose to wear. In school, out of school, it won’t matter if their feelings and thought really follow what their t-shirts say will it? Thanks for you blog!!!!
Hi Amberlee, I’m glad you are reading here and I am so glad you commented to ask about “IOKIYAC” because I can’t figure it out either! 😉
Nance, we’ll no doubt feel silly when you tell us but inquiring minds need to know!
IOKIYA = It’s OK If You’re A ___________
Nance
LMAO! Well then. 🙂
(But you won’t be wearing that t-shirt in class, I trust?)
That is too funny…. I want one that says IOKIYAI (I for idiot)…LOL Thanks for clairifying.
CW : I must be missing something somewhere- how do we get from an “Islam is the Devil” t-shirt to some nutcase preacher claiming that God hates Pres. Obama and that Obama cannot be saved?
It’s all political pushback using hate speech to inflame for intentionally divisive, destructive, inhumane and almost certainly self-serving motives. And untrue in any sense of the word because as you detail above, there is no possible way to show it IS true.
[…] forget curriculum; today’s lesson is education by t-shirt. And if you and yours are on holiday from dogma and curriculum, at least this week if not […]
[…] for “T-Shirt as a Second Language” Test, Ready? 7 05 2010 If you were here for this, get your serious thinking hats ready for this: That wasn’t the only symbolic protest on […]
[…] Today’s Lesson Is Education By T-Shirt […]
From “It’s not just the stupid, Stupid!”:
Remember the movie spoiler shirt in the original post? Well, surprise! The human brain may not think spoilers spoil the fun after all. New research in the news today:
[…] Mrs. C's post. And then Meg's …followed by her followup. All of this eventually made it onto JJ's blog where the comments are alive and […]